Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Otilia Brumă (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:40, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Otilia Brumă[edit]

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Not notable five years ago, when deleted at AfD and SALTED. Not notable today, either. — Biruitorul ^Talk 07:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 09:08, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 09:09, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 09:09, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The article can be improved using the Romanian language Wikipedia article sources. Heck, she recorded a hit single with Shaggy and her song Bilionera (she's called Otilia Bilionera in Romania) was a #1 hit in Turkey, Pakistan, India, Greece, and Bulgaria.[1]. Easy keep for me after doing my due diligence. A #1 hit song in a country is enough to qualify for WP:NMUSIC, we just need Bulgarian and non-English speakers to help. Missvain (talk) 04:38, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The ro.wiki article, at least the bits of it that are cited (which by the way don’t include the Shaggy thing), mainly revolves around routine announcements of YouTube views and video clip launches, and is copiously sourced to sub-par local newspapers and tabloids. So no, there isn’t much to “improve” from there.
- Apropo.tv is the entertainment division of the dubious Media Pro, and is not known for its commitment to the truth. Both “Bilionera” and “Βιλιονερα” have zero Google hits on searches restricted to .el, which is telling. As for the claim that she reached #1 in Turkey: not in 2015, not in 2014 or any other year (that is where we source our Turkish chart data from, apparently).
- Regarding the claim about Pakistan, India and Bulgaria: that was first pushed by the shady DCNews this October (7 years after the alleged fact), then immediately added to ro.wiki by a suspected paid editor and single-purpose account. Let’s not be duped by similar characters.
- I’ve done my due diligence, and can come up with no indication of notability as defined by WP:MUSICBIO, just troll accounts that periodically recreate this dismal article. — Biruitorul ^Talk 07:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still a keep.

Getting a #1 hit in multiple countries (and I don't know why a publication in Greece would lie about that) passes WP:NMUSIC. Missvain (talk) 18:01, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Two points to consider:

1) Per WP:MUSICBIO, musicians who reach a national music chart may be notable. Significant coverage in reliable sources is at least preferred, if not absolutely required.
2) Claims about charts must be supported by reliable sources, per the same policy. We don’t currently have that.
- The claim about charting in Pakistan, India and Bulgaria is made solely by DCNews, the pet project of Bogdan Chirieac, a former informant of the Communist secret police and widely regarded as a sinister joke by legitimate Romanian journalists. No one else has made the claim. Moreover, said claim was made some 7 years after the fact, never during the alleged period of charting.
- The claim about charting in Greece is made not by a serious news site, but by an entertainment portal with loose journalistic standards. It is, as far as I can see, unsupported by any sites in Greece itself. (This is what I said, not that Greek sites lied.)
- The claim about charting in Turkey is made by the same dubious site that made the Greece claim. It is unsupported by the official Twitter account of the national Turkish music chart — the source from which we collect our information regarding songs that chart in Turkey.
So: where did the subject chart, and what legitimate sources (such as, for instance, the sites of the charts themselves) support the claim? — Biruitorul ^Talk 18:25, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment — as a procedural matter, one cannot simply circumvent WP:SALT by recreating under a different name. Certain steps must be followed. Otilia (singer) is protected from recreation, and that must be dealt with. — Biruitorul ^Talk 07:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have no horse in this race, but speaking as the admin who declined your initial speedy deletion request on this page, I disagree with regards to this particular article. The creation-protection was owing to the page being repeatedly recreated years ago, not because of a specific consensus that we should never have a page on this topic. I see nothing to indicate that this is what's going on here—the editor who created the article this time around is a long-term editor who has a long history of writing about Romanian-language pop culture. Page protection is a tool to protect Wikipedia from disruption, not a ban on Wikipedia ever having an article on a given topic. ‑ Iridescent 06:24, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment And while the nominator and I disagree, in the end, it's up to my fellow administrators and reviewers to decide. Here are additional sources that work towards the subject meeting English Wikipedia's WP:GNG and WP:BASIC, etc.. Also, Bilionara was featured on the best selling NR1 Dance Hits 2015, which hit #2 in Turkey.

There are more, in other languages. Alas, I'm an English speaker. I mean geeze, I'm not a fan of "but the likes and views", but, her YouTube video for her single has over 500,000 views[2]. Missvain (talk) 18:47, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 01:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 11:33, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.